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Monday, October 15, 2012
The Good, Bad and Ugly of the CNP Fire Department
My wife and I had coffee and a very long conversation with a friend and well-known member of our community this past weekend. He told me things that were contrary (from the point of view of most people presently signing the Crowsnest Ratepayers Association petition in our community) with respect to supporting our firefighters against our municipal government. He candidly sided with mayor, council and administration against our fire department. Specifically, against the Blairmore Fire Department (BFD) and Ratepayers, who are advocating, in part, on their behalf.
Without going into the whole nitty-gritty he basically said he and many of his friends and associates agree with most of council's actions, particularly with respect to the firefighters. That they are a clickish group, afraid of losing power, made up mostly of Masons who have been running this town for their own benefit for far to long, and needed to be put in their place. And Kudos to Decoux for having the guts for doing so. That in essence is the sum of it.
He didn't necessarily agree with all other aspects of how we are being managed with respect to many of the other grievances the Ratepayers are standing up for on behalf of residents here, but on the fire department he was. In general, he thought this council was tackling tough issues that were long overdue and he and his friends/associates supported them for doing so... including taking on the fire department.
Whether right or wrong, I believe his voice needs to be heard and in this regard I open the floor to those who want to have their say on this matter, as well. I do this mainly because there does not appear to be any other on-line forum willing to have this discussion. Most are either heavily censored, or openly one-sided on this issue, or won't touch it with a ten-foot pole.
The public will believe anything, so long as it is not founded on truth.
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38 comments:
I spoke to some people this weekend who also support council. The common theme though, was they do not like the way council tries to get there agenda done. Was it really nessasary to fire Jamie, or have a press release about the fireworks being stored illegally(and maybe they were not ).Why not an open dialogue and work with the groups instead of ramming it down there throats.Council has a plan, and maybe even a great plan but without the support of the people it will not matter. 12 months later a new council comes in and changes everything back to where it was.So I think council should really step forward and convince us that what they are doing is what is best for the CNP.
Anybody know how many signatures have been collected to this point?
Good on ya for posting this, John. I've heard it tales like this from a few as well. Whether they are the majority or not is yet to be seen but they're definitely out there.
Your alternative media outlet take another step forward!! Well done.
I also support this opinion. It is good that you are big enough to look at both sides. Most people would not say anything too much, as some of the people are pretty outspoken.
But obviously there were things going on at the BFD that needed to be fixed. It sounds like there were a lot of things that were out of date. Of course there are going to be people that are not happy about it. Things that change scare some people.
Interesting! However the firemen are not the only issue that has the people outraged. It is only the straw that broke the camel’s back. A lot of the people have given unconditional support to the firemen, granted, but whether one supports them or not, I think most are in agreement that this council is treating it’s volunteers and taxpayers with very little respect and are spending large amounts of our money.
We voted these guys in thinking; they would be working for us and in complete transparency. Most thought these guys were capable of making a decisions and balancing a cheque book. Instead they have kept us in the dark and hired expensive scape goats to make the decisions, and act like their spending of our money is none of our business.
I have no idea if the fire chief deserved to be fired, but common senses tells us, it was handled very poorly. The municipality Facebook page is a huge disgrace to the people of Crowsnest Pass, and the municipalities posts only makes them look like they are grasping at straws, scared of something and extremely unprofessional.
People have lost all faith in this council, and rightfully so. They have done nothing to earn our trust. Making excuses for and allowing people who disrespect/abuse you, is only setting oneself up for more abuse.
Possibly they do have a good plan, but we as taxpayers should not be left guessing, we are the people, we deserve to be informed every step of the way !
Lets not let the Firemen issues cloud the real situation. The petition is not to reinstate the fired fire chief; it is to have an investigation done on the spending by this council. I am in favour of that. If they have nothing to hide, they should welcome the investigation.
Mason's or not, that is not the point, when your house is on fire, will you really care? This council is not managing our interests well at all. What do you expect from a coal mining community? Common sense is not within the councils reach, they must all be sniffing glue!
No matter whether council has a bad plan or a good plan, the bottom line is we can't afford all these changes right now. I can't believe anyone would fault our fire departments either. After what those men, Masons or not, have done for each and every one of us they should be applauded. As for this Masons comment ... maybe the council also belongs to the Masons. After all, they are clickish, running this place for their own benefit and very, very secretive. I must be very close-minded because I honestly can't see how anyone can back our council. I think restructuring the fire departments would have worked, but to insult the firemen by terminating them in this way is deplorable.
Good for you John. We're having people who support your council afraid to go on record, which is the opposite of democracy. Everyone should have a right to their opinion.
Why do you always speak of the Masons like they are an evil group? What knowledge do you have of them or better yet what did they ever do to you?
Apparently 1 councilor that lives in Blairmore wishes to sign the petition. He apparently wants to do this in public to help make a statement.
I am not sure which councillor this could be.I know 2 councilors live in Bellevue, 1 in Hillcrest and 1 in Coleman( I am not 100% sure where everybody lives).So if I am right it has to be either Sage, or Mitchell.Can not imagine it is Mitchell.
Anybody else hear anything about this?
My guess is Andrew Saje. Lonsbury also lives in Blairmore.
About 900 people had signed by the end of last weekend.
Petition seeks provincial inquiry
This is quite comical. Not sure who you were talking to JP but he must think its 1972 rather than 2012. Maybe throughout the 70's and 80's the majority of the fireman in Bellevue and Hillcrest were Masons and had some pull in the community but not anymore. Hillcrest has 2, Bellevue has 1, Blairmore has 1 and Coleman has 0. Now im no mathematician but i know enough to say that 5 out of 90 is a far cry from the majority. It really baffles me as to how someone could make such a comment and it be so far from the truth.
John, if you believe his side and maintain he has a right to his comments and opinions I believe we have the right to his name. For you to have relayed his message to us clearly states what side of this fence you have decided to support. To state the things you did according to this "FRIEND" you are definately not making points with the Ratepayers. I don't care if the fire department is comprised totally of communists, ex cons,athiests whatever We owe them respect. Who else is willing to protect us with their lives for $15.00 per hour. Think about that John.
The petition is not only about the firemen. This thing has been coming to this point for a while now. If this council has a plan for our future, they have failed to share this plan with the community. If we are to go by their skill in restructuring the fire department, God help us if they touch anything else. It appears as if the administration and the mayor are not being supervised by the council. If the council cannot provide some common sense oversight, then we need an external agency to come in and do this for us. We simply cannot afford all the consultants and the additional overhead on our small tax base. The council should just view this petition as one giant delegation.
Terry Megli said:
John, if you believe his side and maintain he has a right to his comments and opinions I believe we have the right to his name. For you to have relayed his message to us clearly states what side of this fence you have decided to support. To state the things you did according to this "FRIEND" you are definately not making points with the Ratepayers.
Tell me you were joking please. He never said he agreed with him; but he is entitled to his own assessment as he was telling John. Unbelievable. Grow up. You should be ashamed of yourself. What's next, lynch Mob.
I really don't really pay much attention to someone who isn't brave enough to give their name.
You know what tho? No matter what anyone writes now, we all pretty much believe what we believe. We all seem to be on one side or another. Bottom line, whether a municipal affairs fellow comes down or not, I just hope when it's all said and done we can go back to being friends and co-workers, etc. and not hold a grudge over this situation or we'll have lost more than our firemen.
Terry, Although I may not always agree with John he has had the intestinal fortitude to post the other side of the issue that he might not agree with himself, but he feels is worthy of sobber thought by all of us and is very important. Kudos! Flaming is a no-no, but flaming the same person that gives you the vehicle to express yourself?
Thank you Anonymous 3:30. I don't care if the fire departments are comprised of Masons, Witches, Jews, Gnostic s, Christians, Jehovah's, or Mormons for that matter. To be Honest, the Knights of Templar are an interesting bunch if anyone cares to educate themselves about them. I concur with Anonymous 11:22.
I really dont think John knows who he represents anymore. He has been slamming some of this council even before they were elected and has consistently battered them over the last two years. Now he has a change of heart and emphasizes with "someone" who supports this council. I think its great that you allow other peoples opinion but those opinions could have been expressed on any one of your topics. And i fully agree with Terry Megli if you make a statement like that(about the masons) then have the balls to back it up. What are you afraid of these guys what a joke. And remember John "YOU" asked for my opinion
Yea John give us his name, let us at him. We will take care of him...Crowsnest Pass Style. You have a lot of guts Mr. Prince.
Very well put 3:30. In my opinion Anon 11:22 has hit the issue square on the head.
What's lacking here is leadership.
Leadership with character.
all the name calling and emotionalism is so high shool.
we need men to step up and do what's right.
These BFD firemen are extremly holy. To question their motives or conduct is unthinkable. Lets talk about something else.
I have to stand 100% behind John as he has had the "balls" in posting your opinions. Agree or dissagree, it is his blog and his opinion. Try starting your own thread. You will find a little "button" at the lower, righthand, bottom of his blog.
These issues, from the firefighters to the peace officers and TTIV are complex, as are the other issues this council has addressed. Although it may be easy to lump all of these issues into one, I don't believe that is the case.
I don't necessarily agree with how far the pendulum has swung with this current council, but I would be concerned if anyone were to consider running for office under the guise of changing "everything back to where it was" (Anon 10:40).
The continual dissatisfaction with local politics is a cycle we need to break at some point; sadly, I don't think we will ever find the perfect mayor or council. Representing the opinions and concerns of a community as divided (historically divided) as ours must be complicated.
I, for one, am most at ease when politicians make decisions that do not bode well for their political future. I don't think anyone could say that the gentlemen we've elected have made many moves that would sustain their political careers.
You haven't won my vote, but I applaud you for showing one more of the 5,565 opinions on our local government.
Thomas
Thomas, I don't think anyone could have put it more eloquintly. And thanks to John for allowing us all the freedom to vent.
Firstly, I am a supporter of all the firefighters. Secondly, I try to be open to opinions that differ from mine when those opinions have some merit and based on some facts ok. However, "Mr. Well-respected" needs a few things cleared up. An earlier post stated the Masons on the Dept as 5 out 90, but calling them 'clickish' maybe that's wrong word. What do you call a group of guys whose lives depend on each other in a burning building?? Their sense of unity does not end when the fires out,so clickish seems unfitting. In my opinion it would be like calling the police clickish.
I'm not sure any of them are afraid of losing power, but they were NOT afraid of change. The 4 depts worked with the Fire Commisioners Office earlier this year to develop a streamline fire dept plan. The plan was originally accepted by council, then rejected by Administration.
Who really knows what the fire plan is now because one has yet to be made public, all we are getting is the town's damage control.
This is a complex issue, but the bottomline is a fire budget going from $280k in 2011,$880k in 2012 and $1.2 million in 2013 which is unsustainable. Now that's a fact.
Firemen are "Holy".
Really getting carried away in this place.
I will stand 100% behind John, annoymously of course. Yes you are entitled to your opinion but when the person in question makes these claims against respectable people like the firemen and those involved with the masons have the courage to back it up. Anyone can crawl out from under a rock and say what they want ANON but your name will at least either add crediblity or discount your opinion. And yes John provides an open format for all his topics.
Proverbs 18:17
The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him. NIV
Looks to me like some are not interested in the BFD conduct being questioned.
The Mayor and CAO have little respect for their citizens. Wish I had know the Mayor has had numerous marriages before I voted for him. That would have been a good indicator for me to how the man handles his relationships with people. Thank you John for sharing this gentleman's view however I think he must be spouting off because of his intimidation and ignorance of the Masons.
The Masons?!?!?! I just about spit up my coffee reading this.
Really, I have no words to express my disgust at this council and the levels of absurdity they keep sinking to. Just when I think we have reached rock-bottom as a community, we are plunged to a new depth.
The Masons!?!?! You have got to be kidding me. If this is the kind of delusional support the mayor and council has....no small wonder. My God.
John, there you go. When you express your opinion as in the past, you are slammed for being "critical" of matters. Then when you decide to offer someone's alternate viewpoint, you are crapped on by one faction it appears. I don't see where you have changed your stance.
Clearly, the rift created by the present Mayor, Council and Administration since they took office, pales with the BFD issue. The latter is a CYA approach, and has succeeded in pitting one public group against another. Good diversion by "Your Worship" who goes after what is really bothering him. Hurt feelings and egg on his face for the Rum Rummer fiasco.
Will be interesting to see if the latest RR costs are massaged. Last year they had no idea what the costs were, now we will see how much their record keeping improved. Bet many of the real costs went "poof".
In the future, it would be best for you to keep the Mason reference to a " mason jar with hootch in it". At least one can sit back in a warm glow that way.
Hang in there!
Jose
To those who threw laurels my way for giving opportunity for the other side to be heard. Thank you! To those who threw bricks I have only this to say:
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
and...
"Any war (act of rebellion e.g. petition) that requires the suspension of reason as a necessity for support is a bad war."
JP
p.s. Anon @11:22 hit the mark with his/her comment, in my opinion.
John I am so sorry to have read your last comment. I absolutely disagree with you.
Anon @4:28
That's okay. We can't always agree with one another. What a world that would be. But what exactly did you disagree with?
JP
I agree on that, ANON 11:22 did put the situation into perspective-- but i guess its good to have the discussion---
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